I lost a friendship over a discussion of the Dominique Strauss-Kahn rape allegation because I refused to concur with "believe all women" and insisted that men have the right to due process. Good riddance you might say, but the effects of losing that friendship have been akin to those of being shunned since it cost me other friends and social connections. I'm guessing a lot of us are suffering significant losses of friend and family ties over political and social issues these days. Work relationships and livelihoods seem increasingly jeopardized as well. Thank you for this illuminating piece which brings much needed sanity to a difficult topic.
You're a conscientious person, but I think you're not aware of the worst kinds of male experiences, as can be seen from some of your arguments or biases.
I was raised by narcissistic mother, who never wanted a son, and abused me all my life, whilst preaching feminism (cynically for her own gain).
Like a lot of abused children, it doesn't matter what gender, I ended up in an abusive relationship, where the woman beat me to the point of hospitalisation.
My back of my head was broken, and I have lived with a rare epileptic condition since. My mother backed the abuser at first until others noticed, and with any narc, public image is paramount and she sided with me for the time being.
Eventually children's services were called in, and even with hospital records, they told me, the only reason women hit men is because men have pushed them to it, so they're the real victims. She has beaten every guy, and her children to pulps, and all social services have done has given her a pity party, using feminist logic.
She has got with three convicted pedophiles, social services got rid of the first two, then the third went trans, and all of a sudden, socials argument is that he couldn't be a pedo anymore because she's a woman.
Yes, men are more violent on average then women, but you are deeply ignorant to the worst experiences a man can face.
I'm a tedious man, that's damn for sure, but just because I'm against feminism, doesn't mean I'm against women. It's a dogma that justified this behaviour against me and loads of other men, and I've read and listened to it's literature, I know the feminist take on female domestic violence. Male victoms of D don't get reported on, same with female pedophilia, I've seen it upfront with my own eyes, and it distorts the stats and makes men look worse, and women better.
Men do have something to feel resentful for over how we are treated in western society. As men, we are told to emphasise and understand the difficulties of women, but as woman, you are told us men have it easy. We don't.
It shows in your writing, and you're VERY conscientious. Most people, men or women, don't know what's going on in family courts, or children services. It's why the term red pill was originally coined. It's a movement that's growing, and it's not going to stop until male issues are finally addressed.
I think salience might play a role. Men are more likely to be falsely accused than women, while women are more likely to be raped than men. As such, rape is conceptualised as something men do to women, and so for men, the risk of a false accusation is more salient than that of rape.
As such, men might see false accusations as a bigger deal, in the same way people are more afraid of plane crashes after a news story breaks.
Thank you for your thoughtful and thought- provoking piece. Tangentially I have a comment. For context, I am more on the “personal responsibility” end of the spectrum vs the structural, systematic end.
We have a former friend who has been an advocate for men accepting the blame even if they haven’t committed the rape as a way to “right” cultural and historical “wrongs”. In my wildest imagination I would never think for one moment that a man should take personal responsibility for something they did not do. I would argue that it enables whatever psychological pathology is developing in the woman, it absolves her of the opportunity to take personal responsibility for herself and her personal problems. The whole idea of it cancels agency, self determination, and maturation in the accuser. It treats individuals as though they don’t need to be truthful adults. It boggles my mind.
There are a number of things I think are missing. Lets handle the general notion that women's fear is legitimate and men's is not for a start.
Firstly, fear is not objective. You may have a fear of heights, or flying, or the dark or spiders but the chances of any of those things being a legitimate threat to you are very slim. Just because you are scared of something doesn't mean that your reaction is proportional to the chances of it being an actual threat.
We know that testosterone makes men more willing to take risks without regards for their safety. Look at the number of young men that die in reservoirs or car crashes for example. It's completely disproportional to young women.
Why? Because if young men didn't throw caution to the wind, they couldn't do the things that have been expected of them in order to protect society.
The point is the absence of fear does not mean safety and the presence of fear does not mean risk.
Men are much more likely to be murdered at any age compared to women.
"But it's other men killing them"
Well, yes and no. Women have the unique ability to use men as a weapon against other men. That way they are able to use the privilege of plausible denyibility. Secondly, it's irrelevant. Who the threat comes from doesn't matter.
A false accusation often leads to suicide. That's a whole life gone. A ripple affect that rips right through a family and friends. The same can happen in the case of a rape victim. The harm can be equal.
Men can be victims of domestic violence, in fact the data shows one on three reports of domestic violence in the UK is a male victim despite men being even less likely to come forward because of the additional stigma men face in that arena.
Any narrative that tries to tell you that women are uniquely victims and men are uniquely perpetrators is in of itself a form of mass gaslightling of a society that is harmful to everyone, not least lesbian victims of domestic violence, the demographic that reports the highest number of incidents.
As for rape, it doesn't help that the definition of such a crime discriminates against male victims to female perpetrators. We are never going to know exactly how many men are raped or forced to penetrate or women for that matter or how many allegations are false but when you listen to the narrative, even in this post, it makes out as if we know one number is smaller than the other when we don't.
Rape is bad. Sexual assault is bad. Murder is bad. Assault is bad. False allegations are bad.
I believe we should treat all seriously and we should stop playing the women worsting game and instead look at people as individuals, not an arbitrary collective.
Some people do very bad things and it has little to do with their sex chromosomes and more to do with their character.
Were the system such that every woman was believed about any allegation she made against a man without question we would rapidly reach a point where every man has been convicted and has to wear an ankle monitor.
Such an interesting discussion. Trusting something to be true is not the same as something being true. And even in the best legal circumstances, truth is at the mercy of an imperfect system. As opposed to blindly adhering to a tribal affiliation (gender, race, religion, economic standing), truth is best served when we evaluate what happened between two individuals on its own merit. But here's where it gets tricky. Can we separate the individual from his or her lived experience when making that judgement? Is possible or does one's tribal affiliation lend context to the accusation? What if the accused and the victim are part of the same tribe, does that affiliation discount its value and contradict its importance? It's interesting in that we all know right from wrong but we need to hold a healthy skepticism when it comes to knowing the truth.
What about the abuse thrown at the Baby Reindeer woman - refuse to fund Netflix misogynist programming anymore - ageist sexist and violent in most of it - dumb dumb dumb - I hated the profiling; some unattractive woman had the gaul to obsess over a 2 bit sexually confused handsome charismatic comic - The horror - And the commentary and unfounded and largely unsubstantiated character assessments of the poor woman
I lost a friendship over a discussion of the Dominique Strauss-Kahn rape allegation because I refused to concur with "believe all women" and insisted that men have the right to due process. Good riddance you might say, but the effects of losing that friendship have been akin to those of being shunned since it cost me other friends and social connections. I'm guessing a lot of us are suffering significant losses of friend and family ties over political and social issues these days. Work relationships and livelihoods seem increasingly jeopardized as well. Thank you for this illuminating piece which brings much needed sanity to a difficult topic.
Similar trajectory
You're a conscientious person, but I think you're not aware of the worst kinds of male experiences, as can be seen from some of your arguments or biases.
I was raised by narcissistic mother, who never wanted a son, and abused me all my life, whilst preaching feminism (cynically for her own gain).
Like a lot of abused children, it doesn't matter what gender, I ended up in an abusive relationship, where the woman beat me to the point of hospitalisation.
My back of my head was broken, and I have lived with a rare epileptic condition since. My mother backed the abuser at first until others noticed, and with any narc, public image is paramount and she sided with me for the time being.
Eventually children's services were called in, and even with hospital records, they told me, the only reason women hit men is because men have pushed them to it, so they're the real victims. She has beaten every guy, and her children to pulps, and all social services have done has given her a pity party, using feminist logic.
She has got with three convicted pedophiles, social services got rid of the first two, then the third went trans, and all of a sudden, socials argument is that he couldn't be a pedo anymore because she's a woman.
Yes, men are more violent on average then women, but you are deeply ignorant to the worst experiences a man can face.
I'm a tedious man, that's damn for sure, but just because I'm against feminism, doesn't mean I'm against women. It's a dogma that justified this behaviour against me and loads of other men, and I've read and listened to it's literature, I know the feminist take on female domestic violence. Male victoms of D don't get reported on, same with female pedophilia, I've seen it upfront with my own eyes, and it distorts the stats and makes men look worse, and women better.
Men do have something to feel resentful for over how we are treated in western society. As men, we are told to emphasise and understand the difficulties of women, but as woman, you are told us men have it easy. We don't.
It shows in your writing, and you're VERY conscientious. Most people, men or women, don't know what's going on in family courts, or children services. It's why the term red pill was originally coined. It's a movement that's growing, and it's not going to stop until male issues are finally addressed.
I think salience might play a role. Men are more likely to be falsely accused than women, while women are more likely to be raped than men. As such, rape is conceptualised as something men do to women, and so for men, the risk of a false accusation is more salient than that of rape.
As such, men might see false accusations as a bigger deal, in the same way people are more afraid of plane crashes after a news story breaks.
Thank you for your thoughtful and thought- provoking piece. Tangentially I have a comment. For context, I am more on the “personal responsibility” end of the spectrum vs the structural, systematic end.
We have a former friend who has been an advocate for men accepting the blame even if they haven’t committed the rape as a way to “right” cultural and historical “wrongs”. In my wildest imagination I would never think for one moment that a man should take personal responsibility for something they did not do. I would argue that it enables whatever psychological pathology is developing in the woman, it absolves her of the opportunity to take personal responsibility for herself and her personal problems. The whole idea of it cancels agency, self determination, and maturation in the accuser. It treats individuals as though they don’t need to be truthful adults. It boggles my mind.
Always love reading your stuff Helen!
There are a number of things I think are missing. Lets handle the general notion that women's fear is legitimate and men's is not for a start.
Firstly, fear is not objective. You may have a fear of heights, or flying, or the dark or spiders but the chances of any of those things being a legitimate threat to you are very slim. Just because you are scared of something doesn't mean that your reaction is proportional to the chances of it being an actual threat.
We know that testosterone makes men more willing to take risks without regards for their safety. Look at the number of young men that die in reservoirs or car crashes for example. It's completely disproportional to young women.
Why? Because if young men didn't throw caution to the wind, they couldn't do the things that have been expected of them in order to protect society.
The point is the absence of fear does not mean safety and the presence of fear does not mean risk.
Men are much more likely to be murdered at any age compared to women.
"But it's other men killing them"
Well, yes and no. Women have the unique ability to use men as a weapon against other men. That way they are able to use the privilege of plausible denyibility. Secondly, it's irrelevant. Who the threat comes from doesn't matter.
A false accusation often leads to suicide. That's a whole life gone. A ripple affect that rips right through a family and friends. The same can happen in the case of a rape victim. The harm can be equal.
Men can be victims of domestic violence, in fact the data shows one on three reports of domestic violence in the UK is a male victim despite men being even less likely to come forward because of the additional stigma men face in that arena.
Any narrative that tries to tell you that women are uniquely victims and men are uniquely perpetrators is in of itself a form of mass gaslightling of a society that is harmful to everyone, not least lesbian victims of domestic violence, the demographic that reports the highest number of incidents.
As for rape, it doesn't help that the definition of such a crime discriminates against male victims to female perpetrators. We are never going to know exactly how many men are raped or forced to penetrate or women for that matter or how many allegations are false but when you listen to the narrative, even in this post, it makes out as if we know one number is smaller than the other when we don't.
Rape is bad. Sexual assault is bad. Murder is bad. Assault is bad. False allegations are bad.
I believe we should treat all seriously and we should stop playing the women worsting game and instead look at people as individuals, not an arbitrary collective.
Some people do very bad things and it has little to do with their sex chromosomes and more to do with their character.
Were the system such that every woman was believed about any allegation she made against a man without question we would rapidly reach a point where every man has been convicted and has to wear an ankle monitor.
Such an interesting discussion. Trusting something to be true is not the same as something being true. And even in the best legal circumstances, truth is at the mercy of an imperfect system. As opposed to blindly adhering to a tribal affiliation (gender, race, religion, economic standing), truth is best served when we evaluate what happened between two individuals on its own merit. But here's where it gets tricky. Can we separate the individual from his or her lived experience when making that judgement? Is possible or does one's tribal affiliation lend context to the accusation? What if the accused and the victim are part of the same tribe, does that affiliation discount its value and contradict its importance? It's interesting in that we all know right from wrong but we need to hold a healthy skepticism when it comes to knowing the truth.
What about the abuse thrown at the Baby Reindeer woman - refuse to fund Netflix misogynist programming anymore - ageist sexist and violent in most of it - dumb dumb dumb - I hated the profiling; some unattractive woman had the gaul to obsess over a 2 bit sexually confused handsome charismatic comic - The horror - And the commentary and unfounded and largely unsubstantiated character assessments of the poor woman